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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree with Bill. In California exhausting chemical storage cabinets is not required by the California Fire code. We are only required to meet minimum ventilation requirements for the Hazardous Occupancy storage bunker where such cabinets are stored. This is usually a minimum 1-cfm per square foot. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rizik Michael, PE<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Principal<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Integrated Engineering Services <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Office: 408-261-3500<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cell: 408-718-0927<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu [mailto:labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill Flounders<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 21, 2016 2:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> Peter J Duda III; James Marsh; labnetwork@mtl.mit.edu<br><b>Cc:</b> James Marsh (mail.mil)<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [labnetwork] Exhaust of corrosive chemical storage cabinets<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Jim, Peter,<br>The TGO Synopsis from South Bay Pipe is a useful guide for many <br>in this community. Thank you for providing the on line link for all. However, <br>I do not consider using the TGO and its description of requirements for toxic <br>gases and gas cabinets (chemicals in use) the best reference for evaluating <br>ventilation requirements for chemical storage cabinets.<br><br>I suspect you are evaluating ventilation from chemical storage cabinets<br>used to store your closed containers of liquid chemicals and whether<br>this effluent must go through a building scrubber or can be exhausted<br>directly - or in other cases is not required to be exhausted. My dated <br>recall is the mechanical and fire code had specific requirements for the <br>overall room ventilation but not requirements for cabinet ventilation.<br><br>Your local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ, most commonly<br>your local or campus fire marshal) will make the call but I expect you can<br>obtain guidance on this situation by comparing your storage cabinets to<br>the situation at your shipping and receiving or EH&S waste handling facility.<br>I expect the requirements for storage cabinets of closed (not in use) containers <br>to be far more modest than the requirement for a chemical fume hood or other <br>process equipment that is used to handle open chemical containers.<br><br>Re pros and cons instead of discussing code requirements - we have both.<br>Our chemical inventory room which meets specific overall room ventilation<br>requirements, has sealed bottles from the manufacturer, and chemical<br>cabinets that don't stink when you open them - has chem cabinets that are not<br>separately ventilated. This saved money and reserved exhaust capacity for <br>higher priority needs. <br>When we have a stinky cabinet in the main lab with half filled photoresist and <br>waste solvent bottles - even though this is storage - and the room meets overall<br>ventilation requirements - and the cabinet is not required to be exhausted - we added <br>ventilation to the cabinet and insure we met all 1/2 IDLH exhaust requirements.<br><br>Bill Flounders<br>UC Berkeley<br><br><br><br><br>Peter J Duda III wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jim</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Santa Clara developed what is now known as the Toxic Gas Ordinance way back in 1988 as a response to the growing number of semiconductor facilities in that area. It has since been modified and is mostly used as the model for the Universal Fire Code. <u>While no source is definitive</u> and local codes vary – I have found this document:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.sbaypipe.org/assets/pdf/TGO_Toxic_Brochure_single%20pages_0519.pdf"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>http://www.sbaypipe.org/assets/pdf/TGO_Toxic_Brochure_single%20pages_0519.pdf</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>to be extremely helpful in providing general guidance regarding most standard semiconductor gases. Not only does it cover generally where TGO varies from the model fire code - There are a lot of good definitions, the general requirements are very easy to follow and the table of gases provides easy access to classifications and IDLH, etc. Again – one needs to cross check against your local requirements, but a 20 minute read can give you an abundance of info regarding what is required throughout much of the US. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Specifically to your question – you can see under the general requirements in the “Exhaust Ventilation System” which class of gasses are required to be “treated” to ½ IDLH. Under the TGO Synopsis you can see under bullet </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“S” what is involved in a “treatment system”. I leave it to you to interpret those for your specific application and again – to cross check those requirements against local codes. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Peter J Duda</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Technical Director, Pritzker Nanofabrication Facility</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Institute for Molecular Engineering</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>University of Chicago</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>5640 South Ellis Avenue</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>ERC LL178</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Chicago, IL 60637</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Office: 773-702-8903<br>Pager/Text: 773-652-0480</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:duda@uchicago.edu">duda@uchicago.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>ime.uchicago.edu</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu">labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu">mailto:labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Marsh<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 21, 2016 10:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:labnetwork@mtl.mit.edu">labnetwork@mtl.mit.edu</a><br><b>Cc:</b> James Marsh (mail.mil) <a href="mailto:James.e.marsh14.ctr@mail.mil"><James.e.marsh14.ctr@mail.mil></a><br><b>Subject:</b> [labnetwork] Exhaust of corrosive chemical storage cabinets</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hello, </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I would like some feedback regarding the pros/cons of venting corrosive chemical storage cabinets to outdoors. I may be looking at the wrong resources, but after checking NFPA, SEMI, FM Global, both state and international fire and mechanical codes, I have found only sketchy guidance. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I would welcome either ideas or suggestions of where to look for definitive guidance.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks, and have a great day.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Jim</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>James “Jim” Marsh, Contractor</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Facility Manager/Test Coordinator</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>EOIR Technologies, Inc. – A Polaris Company</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supporting</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>US Army Night Vision and Electronic Sensors Directorate</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Semiconductor Material and Fabrication Research Center </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>10221 Burbeck Rd.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ft. Belvoir, VA 22060</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ph: (703) 704-1778</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Mobile: (703) 498-1279</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>labnetwork mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:labnetwork@mtl.mit.edu">labnetwork@mtl.mit.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://www-mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork">https://www-mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>