<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Justin,</div><div><br></div><div>In my opinion, this is a slippery slope. I would imagine that even bone conduction earphones could be turned up loud enough in a 70 dB ambient noise environment that you would not hear someone yelling for help in a neighboring area of the lab. I could also envision a situation where someone handling chemicals is startled by another person because they did not hear them coming. If you allow this kind of thing, you know there will be those who will misunderstand, or pretend they misunderstand, and will use traditional earbuds which may be noise-cancelling. To me, it's not worth the risk and the liability. If you want to have a meeting or listen to music, I think you should leave the lab.</div><div><br></div><div>One guy's two cents.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Kyle<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 13, 2025 at 10:29 AM Justin C Wirth <<a href="mailto:jcwirth@purdue.edu">jcwirth@purdue.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-9222330594601907317">
<div lang="EN-US" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class="m_-9222330594601907317WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">This is a bit of a tangent, but on the earbud/headphone issue, I’ve started informally recommending to our users and staff that if they want to listen to music or have meetings in the cleanroom, to use bone conduction headphones such as
these: <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://shokz.com/__;!!IBzWLUs!TWIS8GmaRycewEN10kU1_IWlhfxRRwYioQjNeWKvV7Lm2rCyokkt5Mh8ENU_QnA_ly0AVFIsKJMfm5t1t72d3b4$" target="_blank">https://shokz.com/</a> (there are also cheaper knock-offs/off-brands on Amazon).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">They don’t go in your ears at all, they sit on your temple and transmit sound through that way. This keeps your ear canals open to hear ambient sounds like alarms and anyone yelling for help, but also lets you listen to a Zoom/Teams meeting
or music or whatever. These ARE NOT noise cancelling so won’t help reduce the sound of the cleanroom itself, but have worked as a very good compromise between the desire to be able to listen to something in the cleanroom but also still be able to be alert
to sounds in the lab.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;border:1pt windowtext;padding:0in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;border:1pt windowtext;padding:0in">Justin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;border:1pt windowtext;padding:0in"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;border:1pt windowtext;padding:0in">Justin C. Wirth, PhD </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;border:1pt windowtext;padding:0in">Senior Research Engineer – EBL Processes & Nanofab Process Consultation </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black;border:1pt windowtext;padding:0in">Birck Nanotechnology Center | Room 2287A<br>
765.494.8203 | </span><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:jcwirth@purdue.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193);border:1pt windowtext;padding:0in">jcwirth@purdue.edu</span></a><span style="border:1pt windowtext;padding:0in"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://purdue.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/BNCWiki__;!!IBzWLUs!TWIS8GmaRycewEN10kU1_IWlhfxRRwYioQjNeWKvV7Lm2rCyokkt5Mh8ENU_QnA_ly0AVFIsKJMfm5t1Qtr6GLY$" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193);border:1pt windowtext;padding:0in">BNCWiki</span></a> |
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://purdue.ilabsolutions.com/__;!!IBzWLUs!TWIS8GmaRycewEN10kU1_IWlhfxRRwYioQjNeWKvV7Lm2rCyokkt5Mh8ENU_QnA_ly0AVFIsKJMfm5t1uecGlFI$" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">Purdue iLab</span></a> |
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/5ad94572a9c04a4e8aa9159479128868@purdue.edu?anonymous&ep=plink__;!!IBzWLUs!TWIS8GmaRycewEN10kU1_IWlhfxRRwYioQjNeWKvV7Lm2rCyokkt5Mh8ENU_QnA_ly0AVFIsKJMfm5t10sTg2b0$" target="_blank">
<span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">Book time on my calendar</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> labnetwork <<a href="mailto:labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu" target="_blank">labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu</a>> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Kyle Keenan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 19, 2025 2:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Massey, Travis <<a href="mailto:massey21@llnl.gov" target="_blank">massey21@llnl.gov</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:labnetwork@mtl.mit.edu" target="_blank">labnetwork@mtl.mit.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [labnetwork] Cleanroom dB levels<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" style="width:100%;background:rgb(255,240,160)">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:3.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">----
<b>External Email</b>: Use caution with attachments, links, or sharing data ----<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For what it's worth, we tell people no earbuds whatsoever, with the two main arguments being that you might not hear a tool alarm or, worse, someone yelling for help in another bay.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Our lab also has ambient noise levels of 70-75 dB.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kyle <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 2:43 PM Massey, Travis <<a href="mailto:massey21@llnl.gov" target="_blank">massey21@llnl.gov</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We found the same thing in a very similar setup and identical ES&H guidance. Typically, we see 70-75 dB in the absence of personnel. The chase is closer to 75 dBa, and the bays
are closer to 70 dBa. There were a few addressable offenders, like a loud spot where disrupted airflow created significant turbulence, increasing sound levels to 75 dBa in the cleanroom, but this was easily resolved by removing the obstruction. Because none
of these exceed the 85 dBA for 8h limit, ES&H will not get involved.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Users concerned about sound levels were tentative about hearing protection. What they
<i>actually</i> wanted in raising the concern was (a) to address the handful of loud spots, and (b) approval to use their noise cancelling earbuds in the cleanroom. To the latter, we’re in a trial period – if it doesn’t impact our ability to get someone’s
attention and talk with them when needed (e.g., can switch into transparency mode for a conversation), then neither I nor ES&H mind terribly if they wear their earbuds. Quality of life counts for something. We only cautioned that
<i>if</i> they play music, they set volume limits to not damage their hearing.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> labnetwork <<a href="mailto:labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu" target="_blank">labnetwork-bounces@mtl.mit.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>N Shane Patrick<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 18, 2025 5:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joseph Losby <<a href="mailto:joseph.losby@ucalgary.ca" target="_blank">joseph.losby@ucalgary.ca</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:labnetwork@mtl.mit.edu" target="_blank">labnetwork@mtl.mit.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [labnetwork] Cleanroom dB levels<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Our facility is bay and chase, no subfab, so all the pumps and chillers and all are right next door to the equipment. After a recent request by one of our staff members, I did an
informal survey using NIOSH’s Sound Level Monitor app (NIOSH SLM) and an uncalibrated microphone. The only time I got above 80db was when people were talking or dropped things, even in our loudest chases.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sustained levels at 85 or more are the levels of concern for hearing loss according to US agencies. Our EHS team agreed with me that even with an uncalibrated system we were very
unlikely to reach sustained levels of concern. People are still welcome to use hearing protection for their own comfort, of course, and I’d likely provide it for my staff if asked, but it takes a lot to get to that sustained 85db point.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now, 80db acoustics and the associated mechanical vibrations from all of that is certainly enough to mess with sensitive instruments, and we have had to relocate certain tools or
just accept our environmental noise translates to measurement noise. That’s more a matter of design and space limitations for us than anything else.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-N. Shane Patrick<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Manager, Lab Operations and Safety<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Washington Nanofabrication Facility<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">On Mar 18, 2025, at 5:26<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM, Joseph Losby <<a href="mailto:joseph.losby@ucalgary.ca" target="_blank">joseph.losby@ucalgary.ca</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"></span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi everyone,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Have any of you taken acoustic noise measurements of your cleanroom facilities, or have a basis of design for acceptable levels? </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">If you can share your facility ACH with noise level ( dB ) that would be great. Any other input will be much appreciated as well. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Joe</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-9222330594601907317m_-8087227891138370092Signature">
<div>
<p style="margin:0in;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(214,0,28)">Joseph Losby, PhD</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black;background:white">Manager, qLab Operations</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black"><a href="mailto:joseph.losby@ucalgary.ca" target="_blank">joseph.losby@ucalgary.ca</a></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;background:white"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:blue"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://urldefense.us/v3/__https:/urldefense.com/v3/__https:/*io.ucalgary.ca/quantum-city__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!iHLndPt-5Otg8wVsZQXZxk-3iaKCEbMpPvt5GPN-MChuQyulVrIaqzrRJ0q_RieM8khiBQeSZ9L7gXCkYXcid4wIyg$__;Lw!!G2kpM7uM-TzIFchu!waiizu6-NrHKSNYCAeodwwzn2tkvyywQPadBM_6aIAQ07Ac016jlYSSD1IujWBz1mMgfFKOzu6kWGk4sg1A$__;Kg!!IBzWLUs!UuCWcgz8b8ADAmO15iHYIny-rlHlpiEtURWPgGiYgZ3NrQRk1MGEYmyjyl9i2eHPhY6x0qrzC5Yr0Vtwc1Nd8iQ$" title="https://io.ucalgary.ca/quantum-city" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><Outlook-3jbzrxwq.jpg></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">
<span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;background:white"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span class="m_-9222330594601907317gmailsignatureprefix">-- </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kyle Keenan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Senior Manager - Laboratory Operations<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Quattrone Nanofabrication Facility<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">University of Pennsylvania<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">P: 215-898-7560<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">F: 215-573-4925<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Kyle Keenan</div><div><br></div><div>Senior Manager - Laboratory Operations<br></div><div>Quattrone Nanofabrication Facility</div><div>University of Pennsylvania</div><div>P: 215-898-7560</div><div>F: 215-573-4925</div><div><br></div><div><img src="https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXe66pb_bj7n0vXky5r9uEf3y5sMz4yFV2HK-lOuGGMzj3VS6ybtG41AGZcUidgjZH61GUaGnR38EWIiqL3J-TsS9TxolLE--_h8K79Lk-dgYMHSjcBvHUy-zL7bWnKmfmJklE7i?key=OpK1PovMbdplDTzml6yQgugX" width="221" height="80" style="margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></div></div></div>