[labnetwork] Cleanroom dB levels

Fri Jun 13 13:16:04 EDT 2025

Hi Justin,

In my opinion, this is a slippery slope. I would imagine that even bone
conduction earphones could be turned up loud enough in a 70 dB ambient
noise environment that you would not hear someone yelling for help in a
neighboring area of the lab. I could also envision a situation where
someone handling chemicals is startled by another person because they did
not hear them coming. If you allow this kind of thing, you know there will
be those who will misunderstand, or pretend they misunderstand, and will
use traditional earbuds which may be noise-cancelling. To me, it's not
worth the risk and the liability. If you want to have a meeting or listen
to music, I think you should leave the lab.

One guy's two cents.

Best,
Kyle

On Fri, Jun 13, 2025 at 10:29 AM Justin C Wirth <jcwirth at purdue.edu> wrote:

> This is a bit of a tangent, but on the earbud/headphone issue, I’ve
> started informally recommending to our users and staff that if they want to
> listen to music or have meetings in the cleanroom, to use bone conduction
> headphones such as these: https://shokz.com/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://shokz.com/__;!!IBzWLUs!TWIS8GmaRycewEN10kU1_IWlhfxRRwYioQjNeWKvV7Lm2rCyokkt5Mh8ENU_QnA_ly0AVFIsKJMfm5t1t72d3b4$>
> (there are also cheaper knock-offs/off-brands on Amazon).
>
>
>
> They don’t go in your ears at all, they sit on your temple and transmit
> sound through that way. This keeps your ear canals open to hear ambient
> sounds like alarms and anyone yelling for help, but also lets you listen to
> a Zoom/Teams meeting or music or whatever. These ARE NOT noise cancelling
> so won’t help reduce the sound of the cleanroom itself, but have worked as
> a very good compromise between the desire to be able to listen to something
> in the cleanroom but also still be able to be alert to sounds in the lab.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Justin
>
>
>
> Justin C. Wirth, PhD
>
> Senior Research Engineer – EBL Processes & Nanofab Process Consultation
>
> Birck Nanotechnology Center | Room 2287A
> 765.494.8203 | jcwirth at purdue.edu
>
> BNCWiki
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://purdue.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/BNCWiki__;!!IBzWLUs!TWIS8GmaRycewEN10kU1_IWlhfxRRwYioQjNeWKvV7Lm2rCyokkt5Mh8ENU_QnA_ly0AVFIsKJMfm5t1Qtr6GLY$>
> | Purdue iLab
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://purdue.ilabsolutions.com/__;!!IBzWLUs!TWIS8GmaRycewEN10kU1_IWlhfxRRwYioQjNeWKvV7Lm2rCyokkt5Mh8ENU_QnA_ly0AVFIsKJMfm5t1uecGlFI$>
> | Book time on my calendar
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/5ad94572a9c04a4e8aa9159479128868@purdue.edu?anonymous&ep=plink__;!!IBzWLUs!TWIS8GmaRycewEN10kU1_IWlhfxRRwYioQjNeWKvV7Lm2rCyokkt5Mh8ENU_QnA_ly0AVFIsKJMfm5t10sTg2b0$>
>
>
>
> *From:* labnetwork <labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu> * On Behalf Of *Kyle
> Keenan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 19, 2025 2:55 PM
> *To:* Massey, Travis <massey21 at llnl.gov>
> *Cc:* labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [labnetwork] Cleanroom dB levels
>
>
>
> ---- *External Email*: Use caution with attachments, links, or sharing
> data ----
>
>
>
> For what it's worth, we tell people no earbuds whatsoever, with the two
> main arguments being that you might not hear a tool alarm or, worse,
> someone yelling for help in another bay.
>
>
>
> Our lab also has ambient noise levels of 70-75 dB.
>
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 2:43 PM Massey, Travis <massey21 at llnl.gov> wrote:
>
> We found the same thing in a very similar setup and identical ES&H
> guidance.  Typically, we see 70-75 dB in the absence of personnel.  The
> chase is closer to 75 dBa, and the bays are closer to 70 dBa.  There were a
> few addressable offenders, like a loud spot where disrupted airflow created
> significant turbulence, increasing sound levels to 75 dBa in the cleanroom,
> but this was easily resolved by removing the obstruction.  Because none of
> these exceed the 85 dBA for 8h limit, ES&H will not get involved.
>
>
>
> Users concerned about sound levels were tentative about hearing
> protection.  What they *actually* wanted in raising the concern was (a)
> to address the handful of loud spots, and (b) approval to use their noise
> cancelling earbuds in the cleanroom.  To the latter, we’re in a trial
> period – if it doesn’t impact our ability to get someone’s attention and
> talk with them when needed (e.g., can switch into transparency mode for a
> conversation), then neither I nor ES&H mind terribly if they wear their
> earbuds.  Quality of life counts for something.  We only cautioned that
> *if* they play music, they set volume limits to not damage their hearing.
>
>
>
> *From:* labnetwork <labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu> *On Behalf Of *N
> Shane Patrick
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 18, 2025 5:41 PM
> *To:* Joseph Losby <joseph.losby at ucalgary.ca>
> *Cc:* labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [labnetwork] Cleanroom dB levels
>
>
>
> Our facility is bay and chase, no subfab, so all the pumps and chillers
> and all are right next door to the equipment. After a recent request by one
> of our staff members, I did an informal survey using NIOSH’s Sound Level
> Monitor app (NIOSH SLM) and an uncalibrated microphone. The only time I got
> above 80db was when people were talking or dropped things, even in our
> loudest chases.
>
>
>
> Sustained levels at 85 or more are the levels of concern for hearing loss
> according to US agencies. Our EHS team agreed with me that even with an
> uncalibrated system we were very unlikely to reach sustained levels of
> concern. People are still welcome to use hearing protection for their own
> comfort, of course, and I’d likely provide it for my staff if asked, but it
> takes a lot to get to that sustained 85db point.
>
>
>
> Now, 80db acoustics and the associated mechanical vibrations from all of
> that is certainly enough to mess with sensitive instruments, and we have
> had to relocate certain tools or just accept our environmental noise
> translates to measurement noise. That’s more a matter of design and space
> limitations for us than anything else.
>
>
>
> -N. Shane Patrick
>
> Manager, Lab Operations and Safety
>
> Washington Nanofabrication Facility
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2025, at 5:26 PM, Joseph Losby <joseph.losby at ucalgary.ca>
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> Have any of you taken acoustic noise measurements of your cleanroom
> facilities, or have a basis of design for acceptable levels?
>
>
>
> If you can share your facility ACH with noise level ( dB ) that would be
> great.  Any other input will be much appreciated as well.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joseph Losby, PhD*
>
> *Manager, qLab Operations*
>
> *joseph.losby at ucalgary.ca <joseph.losby at ucalgary.ca>*
>
>
>
> <Outlook-3jbzrxwq.jpg>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://urldefense.us/v3/__https:/urldefense.com/v3/__https:/*io.ucalgary.ca/quantum-city__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!iHLndPt-5Otg8wVsZQXZxk-3iaKCEbMpPvt5GPN-MChuQyulVrIaqzrRJ0q_RieM8khiBQeSZ9L7gXCkYXcid4wIyg$__;Lw!!G2kpM7uM-TzIFchu!waiizu6-NrHKSNYCAeodwwzn2tkvyywQPadBM_6aIAQ07Ac016jlYSSD1IujWBz1mMgfFKOzu6kWGk4sg1A$__;Kg!!IBzWLUs!UuCWcgz8b8ADAmO15iHYIny-rlHlpiEtURWPgGiYgZ3NrQRk1MGEYmyjyl9i2eHPhY6x0qrzC5Yr0Vtwc1Nd8iQ$>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> labnetwork mailing list
> labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!iHLndPt-5Otg8wVsZQXZxk-3iaKCEbMpPvt5GPN-MChuQyulVrIaqzrRJ0q_RieM8khiBQeSZ9L7gXCkYXfllrKreA$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://urldefense.us/v3/__https:/urldefense.com/v3/__https:/*mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!iHLndPt-5Otg8wVsZQXZxk-3iaKCEbMpPvt5GPN-MChuQyulVrIaqzrRJ0q_RieM8khiBQeSZ9L7gXCkYXfllrKreA$__;Lw!!G2kpM7uM-TzIFchu!waiizu6-NrHKSNYCAeodwwzn2tkvyywQPadBM_6aIAQ07Ac016jlYSSD1IujWBz1mMgfFKOzu6kWLGLr4ac$__;Kg!!IBzWLUs!UuCWcgz8b8ADAmO15iHYIny-rlHlpiEtURWPgGiYgZ3NrQRk1MGEYmyjyl9i2eHPhY6x0qrzC5Yr0VtwevErQhg$>
>
> _______________________________________________
> labnetwork mailing list
> labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork__;!!IBzWLUs!UuCWcgz8b8ADAmO15iHYIny-rlHlpiEtURWPgGiYgZ3NrQRk1MGEYmyjyl9i2eHPhY6x0qrzC5Yr0VtwAF3Igrs$
>
>
>
> --
>
> Kyle Keenan
>
>
>
> Senior Manager - Laboratory Operations
>
> Quattrone Nanofabrication Facility
>
> University of Pennsylvania
>
> P: 215-898-7560
>
> F: 215-573-4925
>

-- 
Kyle Keenan

Senior Manager - Laboratory Operations
Quattrone Nanofabrication Facility
University of Pennsylvania
P: 215-898-7560
F: 215-573-4925
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mtl.mit.edu/pipermail/labnetwork/attachments/20250613/5478a118/attachment.html>