[labnetwork] Hydrogen Generation

Thu Jul 19 23:12:18 EDT 2012

Thanks Tom,
This sounds like a good solution and glad to know this unit is now UL Listed. The Hydrogen generator is quite heavy so please keep in mind the point load on the structure above if/when trying to place it on the interstitial catwalk which is hung from the ceiling.
You should be able to use orbital welding and even add the excess flow sensor and flow restricting orifice to the generator if it is not already included.

Abbie Gregg
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From: labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu [mailto:labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu] On Behalf Of Ferraguto, Thomas
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:17 AM
To: Rizik; 'Bill Flounders'
Cc: labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu
Subject: Re: [labnetwork] Hydrogen Generation

Thank you all for the excellent discussion.

To Denis Grimards point about TGMS points, we're either going to move the Hydrogen generator to the interstitial space above the point of use (shortest distance possible)  or a wall mount near the non-toxic gas distribution panel. The TGMS is not yet completed , so we'll design " tank like" shut offs at the generator (orbitally welded connections). This also moves a non-rated piece of equipment out of the HPM room (the unit is UL rated, not NEC Class 1 Division 2).

To Bills point about H2 in cabinets, it's a good question whether its required by the state or just "best practice". AGI specified as being in a gas cabinet in our design, every facility in Massachusetts I have worked (3 private) has had it in gas cabinets.  NFPA 55 says that the exhaust cannot be recirculated for Hazardous Gases.

Thomas S. Ferraguto
ETIC Clean Room Director
University of Massachusetts Lowell
600 Suffolk Street 456C
Lowell MA 01854-5120
978-934-1809 land
617-755-0910 mobile

From: Rizik [mailto:rizik at intengr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:01 PM
To: 'Bill Flounders'; Ferraguto, Thomas
Cc: labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu
Subject: RE: [labnetwork] Hydrogen Generation

Excellent suggestion. To add to Bill's recommendation, usually, when we install flammable gas cylinders with regulator or gas panel without an exhausted enclosure, we expose mechanical connections to the open space. If this is the lab/fab strategy, then we recommend installing LEL/flammable gas sensor in the vicinity with horn/strobe and manual pull station. Usually the AHJ will require monitoring in this situation.

Rizik Michael, PE
Principal
Integrated Engineering Services
Office: +408 261 3500, Ext. 201
Cell:      +408 718 0927

From: labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu [mailto:labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Flounders
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:31 PM
To: Ferraguto, Thomas
Cc: labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu
Subject: Re: [labnetwork] Hydrogen Generation

Thomas,
While I have had excellent experience with Proton Systems
and recommend an H2 generator to minimize bottle changes,
I know of no requirement to keep H2 in a gas cabinet.
Your local authority may impose a different requirement.

On site hydrogen generation with a PEM strategy rather than
a potassium hydroxide system - in a facility that already has
excess high quality DI water and excess electrical capacity
(as our labs usually do) makes sense. It takes some time to
recover the investment - if it is not being compared to a gas cabinet.

I ask that the discussion address which labs keep H2
in a gas cabinet and why. There are arguments against keeping H2
in a gas cabinet rather than having it open to lab air where the air
changes per hour are significant and offer their own safety.

Bill Flounders
UCBerkeley
Ferraguto, Thomas wrote:
Colleagues,

We're in the process of designing our gas cabinet and abatement layout for our fab.

I just met with the sales representative from Proton and we're looking at Hogen GC600 (99.9999%) purity hydrogen delivery system (600cc a minute)

I can't find any holes in the argument for Hydrogen generation for ~$12k, when a gas cabinet will cost me ~$20K

Does anyone have any thoughts on this unit or Hydrogen generation in general ? (primarily for PECVD)

Thanks...

Thomas S. Ferraguto
ETIC Clean Room Director
University of Massachusetts Lowell
600 Suffolk Street 456C
Lowell MA 01854-5120
978-934-1809 land
617-755-0910 mobile

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